Paul's a Commie
excerpts from the "Billy Bragg" list:

L. Gaylord relays the results of excerpts from the "POP Magazine" (Sweden) TBS Article on the Billy Bragg list (to read the entire article, click here): 

POP:  In songs like "Get Up Off Our Knees" and "I Think The Answer’s Yes" it sounds almost as if you’re preaching a marxist revolution.

PDH:  I am. I can’t say that I’m encouraging a violent revolution, but a think that Marxist revolution is the only way to make the world equal. The capitalist system is based on the fact that some people succeed and some people are knocked out. That is how capitalism works.

See what the world is like. We have a ruling class and a class that is out in the cold. The ruling clas tends to get smaller and smaller. In the future there will perhaps be ten people ruling the whole world.

POP:  What do you think of Tony Blair who says he can bring Labour to avictory?

PDH:  Tony Blair can go and fuck himself with a broken bottle. The new Labour is a big fucking joke. It’s not a left-wing party anymore. How far right can you go and still claim to be on the left wing? The groundwork was made already under Neil Kinnock. He got rid of all the people who were considered too far left.

That is by the way something I can’t forgive Billy Bragg for. He supported Kinnock throughout that whole process.

I’m considering voting for John Major instead. Who would you rather took care of your bank business, John Major or Tony-Fucking-Blair? The Tory-gang are professionals at being capitalist bastards. If we get a new Labour leader that is a Conservative at heart, isn’t it better to vote for those who have got the competence and stand for what they’re doing.

Bill

I assume Heaton is referring to Red Wedge, and somehow sees Billy supporting this as being some sort of agreement with Kinnock's expulsion of the Militant Tendency.

Here are some quotes which refute that... >

From NME 21st-28th Dec, 1985

Where do you disagree with Kinnock?

"Well I disagree with Kinnock over the issue of the miners strike. I disagree with Kinnock over the need for a witch hunt..." >

From Melody Maker, 8th Oct, 1988

What's Neil's (Kinnock) attitude to you? Are you seen as some kind of necessary evil?

"No, he's always had a very positive attitude towards Red Wedge. Sometimes the Party, the hierarchy, have that 'necessary evil' feeling about us, and they've tried to manoeuvre us into the position where we're doing the job the Young Socialists are supposed to do, because they're still one of the last strongholds of Militant Tendency, but I think it's very important that we have a strong youth wing, whatever colour or tendency it is."

Luther

I know I'm not the only person on the list who points to The Housemartins, along with Bill, as a factor in his "political awakening". They might not have been entirely sincere, but they still got me thinking about things at a relatively young age. Ta to Rob for posting those refutations. I'm glad to hear that Bill didn't keep quiet about Kinnock's bullshit. I think Paul's point, however, was that at the end of the day, Bill still ended up supporting Kinnock under the "half a loaf" or "lesser of two evils" theories, despite the purges. He shouldn't have.

Tom

We'll let the Housemartins lie, as they are a long time in the past. The quote comes from 1997, by which time Paul Heaton had spent the best part of ten years foisting sacharine CRAP on an unsuspecting public and making vast amounts of money by deleting the very last trace of any edge or opinion from his music. He is the musical equivalent of Tony Blair, and his adolescent ranting is clearly a textbook case of self loathing. Meanwhile Billy Bragg has continued to tour the world, playing benefits wherever he goes and remaining true to his musical roots and sincere and thoughtful in his politics. I know which I prefer.

Tom

FYI, more useful information on Paul and The Beautiful South, including lots about their politics, can be found at their official corporate website: http://www.beautiful-south.co.uk Here are Paul's official likes and dislikes: Likes: Knockers (Tits if you didn't know ) Anne Frank People who belch in their sleep and others who sing loudly Dis-likes: Filling in stupid questionnaires Being confused, and denying it! Other people packing my picnic hamper Wow, the man is a dangerous firebrand! Or is he merely jumping on yet another bandwagon, this time the new-lad phenomenon

Rob

As for Paul Heaton, the Housemartins were great, and the Beautiful South have had their moments, but I agree with Tom that he has hardly made an effort to put across his Marxist views if that's what he considers himself to be (something Billy has never claimed to be). The Beautiful South DO NOT mix pop & politics.

Ian

This trashing of Mr. Heaton has got totally out of control. I would argue that much of this criticism is valid ONLY from about '95 onwards; up to then his work with the Beautiful South was still as politically explicit and unashamedly radical/marxist as when he was in The Housemartins.

For example:

1989: from 'Have You Ever Been Away?':

"I'm afraid your 'Rule Britannia' mania doesn't ring so true If I was captain of the waves I'd turn the guns on you; Any last requests, before you join the dead? Crap into your Union Jack and wrap it round your head."

From 'Oh Blackpool' - an attack on wishy-washy liberals and opportunist/centrist politics:

"They wore enamel badges of David Steel on their sleeves And nuclear power not sure, no thanks and yes please; And their faces were two-fold, and their teeth they were gold; And they wore their pin-stripe suits with a rip at the knees I'm out tonight and can't decide Between Soviet hip and British pride."

1990: from 'I Think The Answers Yes'

"So to a world where the leaders finally confess; To the burning of the stock exchange and bombing of the press; I think the answer's yes ..."

1992: from 'We'll Deal With You Later'

"Revolutions come and go but royalty's still there Don't worry if it's Queen or Duke - try scything down the pair... Every war is always cursed with just who do you shoot at first Think we'll take on Sandhurst - take an officer, he's the worst..."

1994: Songs like 'Hooligans Don't Fall In Love' about the links between the far right and football hooliganism, plus the way the working class is systematically repressed by the laws and cultural practices of 90s Britain.

And another song I can't remember the title of which verse by verse attack church, state and the political right, ending with the desire to give a "double arsenic to Mr. Le-Pen" Something happened in 94 to kill off Heaton's commitment to politically radical and activist music after 10 years of interest. He's now making a career out of studying sexual politics, rather than Marxist politics. But, however, if you're talking about the music then you're right - that's always been pretty much bollocks in the Beautiful South, David Rotheray being one of the worst pop song composers EVER.

Andrew

Uh, hold on a minute.... I know I'm not the only person on the list who points to The Housemartins, along with Bill, as a factor in his "political awakening". Wait a second, confusion alert ... the altogether mighty Housemartins started life as a busking duo in 1984, if I remember correctly, and didn't release any records until mid-1985.

How could they be a key factor in the political development of a man who left the Army in 1982 and put out his first record shortly thereafter? Granted, the second album was far more political, but even that was 1984! They might not have been entirely sincere, but they still got me thinking about things at a relatively young age. Me too....but not entirely sincere? That's a harsh rap, too!

I think they saw the potential to reach more people (as Billy himself has done at various times) by couching a fairly serious and fiery political message in sweet, boppy pop songs, the kind of thing Midlands and Northern England excelled at in the mid-80s (Smiths, Echo & the B, Pete Wylie, etc), not to mention the Scots! :) The fact that Caravan Of Love was not overtly political, got a lot of daytime airplay (!!!) and yet was their only no.1 hit only means they succeeded in drawing attention to the rest of their work....well look, Luther, it worked for you! I remember Bill talking to a small assembled knot of us at the front of the stage signing stuff after the March 10 1989 gig at Sydney Town Hall. he was to be whisked away within minutes to rush to the studios of the local Australian edition of MTV (only lasted about 1986-1991) for an interview.

As the crowd around me groaned, he said "ah look, the only way to reach these people is to play things their way". He was right...kind of. Ta to Rob for posting those refutations. I'm glad to hear that Bill didn't keep quiet about Kinnock's bullshit. I think Paul's point, however, was that at the end of the day, Bill still ended up supporting Kinnock under the "half a loaf" or "lesser of two evils" theories, despite the purges. He shouldn't have. Except (and I know I'm buying into a very large argument here, and from a large distance too!) that by 1986 it was clearly a matter of getting rid of Thatcher no matter what, because the prospect of continued Thatcherism until, say, the end of the decade was just too horrible to think about.

With effectively a two-party system (same as here, where any number of parties can enter, but how many are realistically going to have the numbers to form government?), Labour was the only party with the potential to kick Thatcher out of No.10. Class War sure weren't going to achieve it, were they? I realise, of course, that all of this presumes a belief in Parliament as a meaningful and/or effective place in which to work real social change.

Luther

I wasn't asserting that the Housemartins influenced Bill, Andrew. Here, let me try again, changing one word for the sake of clarification (even if it does fuck up the grammar):

I know I'm not the only person on the list who points to The Housemartins, along with Bill, as a factor in my "political awakening".

As for the accusation that The Housemartins were insincere, that wasn't my accusation. I was anticipating an argument which is frequently brought up by critics of the band--that they were complete poseurs who believed none of the "marxist" bullshit they spouted. Personally, I think their support for the miners in 1984 and other working-class causes puts that accusation to shame.

(our D. King)

I must admit that Ian's opinion that Rotheray was one of the worst songwriters baffles me. Song writing is subjective, purely an opinion. Okay so maybe the only rules I would lay down are that tunes should at least be 'In Tune'. Maybe Ian should get hold of THE RUDIMENTS & THEORY OF MUSIC and explain why Rotheray is such a bad song writer. Bragg especially can write songs with limited chord sequences (in some cases using chord sequences used in other songs), does this make him such a good songwriter?