E. Dwyer

"Why is "Pretenders to the throne" so called? . .is it some sort of ironic self comment about the band?"

dking

As far as I'm aware, "pretenders to the throne" is a term which that describes those who would take control of the government (or the throne). My interpretation is that TBS believes that Hull is king and that all other towns are pretenders to the throne.

K. Appleton

I seem to remember from a Radio One interview (possibly the Christmas Eve sessions from a couple of years back, which I taped but have now lost) that the song refers to a real place, but that Paul wouldn't reveal where it was. I got the impression it was somewhere foreign. But the idea that all other towns are merely pretenders to this mysterious place's throne still makes sense. Hull is in the list of cities they name, would that rule it out from being "the" place?

D. Wilk

I have given my vision on this song before, and it didn't go over all that well, but, perhaps just didn't explain it well enough, let me try it again here - I think I am onto something.

The song is not sung from the perspective of a single person - it is one of Paul's "dialogue songs" - like A Little Time or Right Man for
the Job, only unlike those two songs, Paul is singing both parts.  I envision the song being a conversation between Paul and Dave R. taking place in the town in the Spain where they retreat to write.

One person is singing about how much they LIKE the town: "It's got class and it's got excellence like you've never seen"  And the other is telling the first to shut up already about it:  "Your town is dragging me down, dragging me down down down"

The second person also delivers the question "As I watch them drop the grain into your fishtank brain, how can you like this place when it never even rains?"

As Paul is the notorious drunk, I make Paul out to be person 1 and Dave R. to be person 2. And the town in question - I say it is that same town in Spain where the conversation is taking place - and where it probably doesn't rain too much - at least not like in Hull.

JA. O'Connor

If PTTT is referring to a particular place as having the true throne,rather
than the recognized places which have 'glamour ' and 'culture' etc. then could it be Belfast?

In the programme from the '97 tour Dave R named Belfast as his best ever
city (and what he said actually sounded quite like PTTT):

''Los Angeles has the sunshine and the attitude, Milan has the football and the nightclubs, Paris has the fancy food and the tower. But this is a drinkers choice. I believe Belfast is the best good-time city in the world, with the most up-for-it people you could hope to meet.'' (Dave Rotheray '97)

Well we know they don't mind the odd drink and Belfast is famous for its
hills (pot-bellied?) . . .

M. "Buckeye"

"Hull is in the list of cities they name, would that rule it out frombeing
"the" place?"

I think so, because "its' got class and its' got excellence like you've never
seen". They give, I believe, all the kudos which they plan to give Hull in
mentioning Hulls' "musical flair".

JoelPY

"As I watch them drop the grain into your fish tank brain
How can you like this place when it never even rains? Never even rains"

I'd interpret the above as to be the place they were in when they wrote the track, leaving the answer to be somewhere it actually does rain.

Since Hull's in the song, I vote not Hull.  Given the Dave R. program reporting (if indeed drinkability equates with "class and excellence like you've never seen")
let's vote Belfast.

Clearly he's writing about a town that doesn't get a lot of praise. Given the peace deal, maybe LFW should all go there, experience some up-for-it good times and get our own little potbellies. Cheers.

A. Ott

The first version of this song was recorded from the band around1989/1990; the lyrics are different and all the of towns are UK towns not european as in the edited version.

If I'll find a little time I'll listen and post LFW which towns are named.

R. Stevenson

Yes Alex is correct the original version of the song was recorded during the recording of the Welcome to album. Sean did explain to me a while ago that the band where confused that the song never got pressed onto the Welcome album and it wasn't until some time later they decided to re-record it.

JoelPY

Has anyone actually been to Belfast and can comment on the nature of its public transportation system can its buses be described:"Funny looking buses/Climb it's pot-bellied hills"

Like to put an end to this discussion with resolution.   Given that Alex reports that the original version had all British cities, that keeps Belfast in our list of possibles (no flaming -- non-political comment) and excludes the Spain theory.

Amaryllis

Okay, here are my thoughts: I think we're barking up the wrong treewith all these attempts to pin down a specific city.

The line, "If you've been, that's not where I mean," seems to suggest that the place in question is not somewhere that anyone can just hop on a plane and fly to, or at least not a place that you would think to visit. I think the song is a sort of commentary on the artificial world we have manufactured for ourselves, one where it never even rains- the struggle for utopia, and he's saying that you need all the bad stuff, that perfection isn't enough.

All these famous,beautiful cities have somuch to offer and yet they'll never be the "king," because they have lost touch with what truth, and therefore true greatness. We, the people of this modern world, gladly eat up the grain we're fed: we don't question or search anymore. And it's ironic, because all the supposedly wonderful cities are dragging him down, while his imperfect paradise has class and excellence of a different kind, a forgotten kind that we've never seen, a kindthis world doesn't seem to value anymore.

Trent WP

I agree with Amaryllis, we are not looking for the city/town he is dreaming about,

The song, I think, is a bashing of the European Union. Where Rotterdam tells us all Europe cities are the same (this could be Rotterdam or anywhere, Liverpool or Rome), this song is telling us that "your town is dragging me down". The songs lists all the great towns and cities, yet as a whole they are dragging him down. This means that the EU is dragging him down, meant as a slight on the EU.

Also the statement "If you've been, that's not where I mean " leads me to believe he is not talking about a city or even a place where he wants go, cause he doesn't know.

If you notice all the towns listed are European towns.   Someone noted earlier that the original had all English towns. This would place meaning on the song with English towns, as England dragging him down.  With the wealth of travelling across Europe they did in the years before the rewriting, it would lead me to believe that they got the same impression of Europe as a whole.

Buckeye

I sent some of the "Pretenders" posts to a friend whom I have introduced to
TBS (and whom he really digs) and she was fascinated.

Kind of like some of the other posts that indicate that heis not
talking about going to any one "great" city but basically trying to get away
from all that the "great" cities represent.

Here are her impressions:

A. Ott

Paul Heaton's favourite place, taken from TBS tour program 1995:

"The road from Alcaniz to Teruel (Spain). In fact, most of Aragon for the
pounds and pounds of vultures that roam the skies. A hot August day, stood
mountain high, with Griffon vultures circling you up above."

(this is not a town, though)